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[Episode #246] – Meeting Australia’s 2030 Target

Mar 26 2025

This episode is part of a miniseries about Australia’s energy transition.

In late 2024, Chris traveled to Australia and recorded interviews with a wide range of experts who are closely involved in its energy transition. The first of those interviews was featured in Episode #234, and the second in Episode #235.

In this episode, we'll see how the Australian government is working with the grid power sector to plan and execute its transition to renewables—despite a political opposition committed to fossil fuels and nuclear. We'll also explore what's being done to ensure adequate capacity and maintain system reliability during this transformation.

To tell this story, we weave together the perspectives of several guests:

Chris Bowen, Minister for Climate Change and Energy for the Australian Labor Party, explains Australia's decarbonization targets and the government's framework to achieve them.
Matt Kean, Chair of Australia's Climate Change Authority, shares his team’s findings about the best pathways to meet those targets.
Alex Wonhas of AMPYR shares insights from helping grid operator AEMO develop Integrated System Plans that describe how to evolve the system toward those targets while maintaining reliability.
Tristan Edis of Green Energy Markets discusses the technical considerations of orchestrating new grid power resources.

In the subsequent episodes in this miniseries, we’ll be exploring how Australia is using innovation to meet the challenges of the transition. We’ll also take a closer look at how they use DER integration to support the system while helping customers gain more control over their energy bills and even save money.

Guest #1:

Dr. Alex Wonhas is a veteran senior executive and thought leader who has shaped the national and state-based strategic agendas in Australia’s energy sector for more than three decades.

Through roles including Executive General Manager at AEMO, Managing Director at Aurecon, and Executive Director at CSIRO, he has worked extensively with governments and industry in the Energy and Resources sector on issues ranging from strategic investment decisions in a complex and rapidly changing market environment, development and procurement of new large-scale infrastructure, impact of new technologies, to operational and organisational improvement. He is currently the CEO of AMPYR Australia.

Alex has served on a range of energy and resources related advisory committees and boards, including the Energy Corporation of New South Wales, CSIRO Chile, Evergen, CO2CRC, ANLEC, and the Australian Solar Institute. He has a PhD in Theoretical Physics from the University of Cambridge.

On LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexwonhas/

Guest #2:

Chris Bowen is Minister for Climate Change and Energy for the Australian Labor Party, representing Prospect, New South Wales in the House of Representatives. He has held a wide range of portfolios including serving as Treasurer, Minister for Human Services, Minister for Immigration, Minister for Financial Services, Assistant Treasurer, Minister for Competition Policy, Minister for Small Business and Minister for Tertiary Education. Chris has been responsible for a range of significant policy reform programs in these portfolios.

He served as Interim Leader of the Labor Party and Acting Leader of the Opposition following the 2013 Federal election and served as Shadow Treasurer.

On Twitter: @bowenchris

On the Australian Government website: https://www.aph.gov.au/Senators_and_Members/Parliamentarian?MPID=DZS

On the Web: https://www.chrisbowen.net/

Guest #3:

The Hon. Matt Kean is the Chair of Australia’s Climate Change Authority. He is also the Director of Regulatory Affairs and Strategic Partnerships at Wollemi Capital.

Matt was most recently the New South Wales (NSW) Government Shadow Minister for Health. He was Deputy Leader of the NSW Liberal party from August 2022 until March 2023. Throughout his 13-year political career, Matt also held ministries of Innovation and Better Regulation, Treasury, Energy and Environment. He was the local New South Wales Government member for Hornsby from 2011 until 2024.

As Treasurer and Energy Minister of NSW, Matt championed climate action that is in the best interests of households and businesses. In 2020, he delivered the Electricity Infrastructure Roadmap: A 20-year plan for NSW’s energy infrastructure. The roadmap spurs private investment in renewable energy while reducing emissions and power bills for the people of NSW.

On Twitter: @Matt_KeanMP

On LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-kean-mp/

On the Web: https://www.climatechangeauthority.gov.au/

Guest #4:

Tristan Edis has worked on commercial and policy initiatives for the energy transition for 24 years.

Currently he is the Director of Analysis and Advisory at Green Energy Markets. He undertakes research to support clients making investment, trading and policy decisions related to energy and carbon abatement markets.

Tristan has written extensively on how to improve the energy system and markets to deliver reliable and affordable energy while also addressing climate change.

Previously, he has worked in the Clean Energy Council for the Australian Government, Ernst & Young, and the Grattan Institute think tank. He was also the editor of a clean energy news website called Climate Spectator.

On Twitter: @TristanEdis

On LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tristan-edis-7b107998/

On the Web: https://www.greenmarkets.com.au/

Tristan’s research papers in IEEFA

Tristan’s articles in AFR

Tristan’s articles in The Guardian

Tristan’s articles in Watt Clarity

Tristan’s articles in Renew Economy

Tristan’s articles in Inside Story

Tristan’s articles in The Australian

Geek rating: 6

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[Episode #244] – Rethinking Industrial Strategy

Feb 26 2025

Mini Episode

What makes for effective and enduring green industrial policy? How can public and private investment mobilize to achieve the Paris Agreement’s 1.5°C goal? Can Trump undermine climate science and the global energy transition, or will the rest of the world carry on without the US? Which policy designs can drive equitable green growth, ensuring the energy transition benefits economically disadvantaged and indigenous communities?

Today’s guest, Mariana Mazzucato, is a Professor in the Economics of Innovation and Public Value at University College London and the Founding Director of the UCL Institute for Innovation & Public Purpose. An author of four influential books on shaping capitalism, growth, and economic policy for the public good, she advises governments worldwide on innovation-led inclusive and sustainable growth. She chairs several governmental and inter-governmental organizations and produces reports designed to shape economic policies, particularly in the developing world.

In these challenging times of economic upheaval, Mariana’s ideas offer valuable guidance for policymakers as they craft industrial strategies to advance the energy transition.

Guest:

Mariana Mazzucato is Professor in the Economics of Innovation and Public Value at University College London, where she is Founding Director of the UCL Institute for Innovation & Public Purpose (IIPP). Her previous posts include the RM Phillips Professorial Chair at the Science Policy Research Unit at Sussex University.

She is winner of international prizes including the Grande Ufficiale Ordine al Merito della Repubblica Italiana in 2021, Italy’s highest civilian honour, the 2020 John von Neumann Award, the 2019 All European Academies Madame de Staël Prize for Cultural Values, and the 2018 Leontief Prize for Advancing the Frontiers of Economic Thought. She is a member of the UK Academy of Social Sciences (FAcSS) and the Italian Academy of Sciences Lincei. Most recently, Pope Francis appointed her to the Pontifical Academy for Life for bringing ‘more humanity’ to the world.

She is the author of The Entrepreneurial State: debunking public vs. private sector myths (2013), The Value of Everything: making and taking in the global economy (2018), Mission Economy: a moonshot guide to changing capitalism (2021) and The Big Con: How the Consulting Industry Weakens our Businesses, Infantilizes our Governments and Warps our Economies (2023).

She advises policy makers around the world on innovation-led inclusive and sustainable growth. Her roles have included for example Co-Chair of the Group of Experts to the G20 Taskforce on a Global Mobilization against Climate Change, Chair of the World Health Organization’s Council on the Economics of Health for All, Co-Chair of the Global Commission on the Economics of Water, Co-Chair on the Council on Urban Initiatives, Commissioner for the Jubilee Report on Addressing the Debt and Development Crises in Countries from the South, and member of the South African President’s Economic Advisory Council. Previously, through her role as Special Advisor for the EC Commissioner for Research, Science and Innovation (2017-2019), she authored the high-impact report on Mission-Oriented Research and Innovation in the European Union, turning “missions” into a crucial new instrument in the European Commission’s Horizon innovation programme, and more recently, authored a report with the UN’s Economic Commission for Latin America and the Caribbean (ECLAC) on Transformational Change in Latin America and the Caribbean: A mission-oriented approach.

On Bluesky: @mazzucatom.bsky.social

On Twitter: @MazzucatoM

On Substack marianamazzucato.substack.com

On the Web: https://marianamazzucato.com

UCL profile page: https://profiles.ucl.ac.uk/61409-mariana-mazzucato/about

Geek rating: 7

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[Episode #231] – Five Times Faster

Aug 21 2024

Mini Episode

Why have our climate policies failed to significantly reduce carbon emissions? What new strategies could help us decarbonize the global energy system five times faster — as is needed to avoid the worst climate scenarios?

Our guest in this episode believes he has some answers to these questions.

Simon Sharpe has been personally involved in the crafting of climate policy in the UK for over a decade. He designed and led flagship international campaigns for climate policy in 2020-2021, when the UK hosted COP26, and has held key roles in the UK Government, including as head of a private office to a minister of energy and climate change. His diplomatic experience includes postings in China and India. Currently, he is Director of Economics for the Climate Champions Team and a Senior Fellow at the World Resources Institute. Simon has published influential academic papers and created groundbreaking international initiatives in climate change risk assessment, economics, policy, and diplomacy.

In his 2023 book, Five Times Faster—Rethinking the Science, Economics, and Diplomacy of Climate Change, Simon lays out why the institutions of science, economics, and climate diplomacy that should be helping us are holding us back. Chapter by chapter, he forensically analyzes why so many of our climate policies have failed to produce the desired results, demonstrating how science is pulling its punches, diplomacy is picking the wrong battles, and economics is fighting for the wrong side. More importantly, he outlines how to develop alternative policies that could actually work.

Guest:

Simon Sharpe is Director of Economics for the Climate Champions Team and a Senior Fellow at the World Resources Institute. He designed and led flagship international campaigns of the UK’s Presidency of the UN climate change talks (COP26) in 2020-2021; worked as the head of private office to a minister of energy and climate change in the UK Government; and has served on diplomatic postings in China and India. He has published influential academic papers and created groundbreaking international initiatives in climate change risk assessment, economics, policy and diplomacy.

On the Web: fivetimesfaster.org

Geek rating: 6

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[Episode #224] – US Hydrogen Tax Credits

May 15 2024

Mini Episode

Clean hydrogen is expected to be an essential pathway to decarbonizing the economy. The US Inflation Reduction Act of 2022 offered a generous tax credit known as “45V” for clean hydrogen production, but left it to the US Treasury Department and the IRS to define the rules for earning the credit. So they sought input on the rules by issuing an RFI (Request for Information), and aspiring hydrogen industry players, think-tanks, policy advisors, and the public submitted their guidance. After the proposed rules were issued, tens of thousands of additional comments were filed. A final comment period on the rules ended on May 10.

Eric Gimon of Energy Innovation, a San Francisco-based clean energy think tank and a major contributor to the 45V discourse, previously discussed their guidance for the IRS in Episode #192.

In this episode, Eric rejoins us to discuss the proposed final rules, and their team’s comments on them. On the whole, they are optimistic that the rules will spur robust investments in the burgeoning US green hydrogen sector. With potentially hundreds of billions of dollars in tax credits on the line, it’s important to get the details right, so we explore them in depth in this 90-minute discussion—which earned a rare off-the-charts Geek Rating of 11. We also address concerns and criticisms raised by prospective hydrogen producers whose projects may not align with the new regulations.

Guest:

Eric Gimon consults as a technical expert, research scholar, and policy adviser with Energy Innovation, where he works with the Electricity team to develop innovative thinking on policy solutions for clean, reliable, and affordable electric power in the U.S. More specifically, Eric works on questions of renewable energy integration, both in the context of today’s challenges as well as for future pathways

On Twitter: @EricGimon

On the Web: Eric’s writing on Power Sector Transformation at Energy Innovation

Geek rating: 2

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[Episode #223] – Fiscal Implications of the US Transition

May 1 2024

Mini Episode

The dialogue surrounding so-called 'just transition' initiatives in the US has primarily focused on the workforce: How can communities reliant on well-paying fossil fuel sector jobs find new opportunities for those facing unemployment? Are there state or federal retraining programs available to facilitate their transition into new roles? Moreover, what industries can offer new, equally good jobs?

What hasn’t been studied nearly as much is the fiscal impact of losing industrial activity related to fossil fuel extraction, processing and delivery. How much public revenue is really at stake in the energy transition? Which states face the highest jeopardy? And how can communities dependent on fossil fuel revenues navigate their transitions while continuing to support essential public infrastructure, such as schools and libraries, once these funds dry up?

In today’s conversation, we speak with an expert who has studied the fiscal impact of the energy transition extensively: Daniel Raimi, a fellow at Resources for the Future (or RFF), an independent, nonprofit research institution based in Washington, DC. Daniel shares with us the results of his extensive, on-the-ground research into the fiscal implications of the energy transition for communities that derive a large share of their public revenue from fossil fuel industries. We also talk through a number of ways fossil-fueled revenues could be replaced by clean energy industries and other policies. We consider the importance of green industrial policy in the equation, and we wrap it up with a speculative discussion about the destiny of fossil fuel communities in the net-zero world of 2050 that we’re striving to reach.

Guest:

Daniel Raimi is a fellow at RFF and a lecturer at the Gerald R. Ford School of Public Policy at the University of Michigan. He works on a range of energy policy issues with a focus on tools to enable an equitable energy transition. He has published extensively in academic journals and been quoted in national media outlets. He has presented his research for policymakers, industry, and other stakeholders, including before the US Senate Budget Committee and the Energy and Mineral Resources Subcommittee of the US House’s Natural Resources Committee. He is also the author of The Fracking Debate (2017). He cohosts Resources Radio, a weekly podcast from RFF.

On Twitter: @danielraimi

On the Web: Daniel’s page at RFF

Geek rating: 2

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[Episode #220] – Climate Capitalism

Mar 20 2024

Mini Episode

What is the recipe for an energy transition at the scale needed to limit global warming below the crucial 2°C threshold?

Bloomberg journalist Akshat Rathi has identified some of the key ingredients, based on his interviews with ten of the world’s most influential personalities working on climate solutions. In his new book, Climate Capitalism, Akshat recounts their stories and makes a case for how capitalism and the dynamism of the private sector are essential components of the global race to zero emissions.

We take a deep dive into Rathi’s work, confronting the criticisms of capitalism, examining how its varied implementations around the world produce different results, and exploring potential reforms for improvement. We conclude by weaving in some ideas drawn from topics discussed previously on the show, including “command capitalism,” how the energy transition requires long-term planning with a system thinking perspective, and the tension between forces driving for international cooperation versus competition.

It's a thoughtful look at the state of the global energy transition from someone with a front-row seat to the investment flows around the world, and we know you’ll find it an illuminating and inspiring discussion.

Guest:

Akshat Rathi is a senior climate reporter for Bloomberg News and is the host of Zero, a weekly climate podcast for Bloomberg Green.

He has a PhD in chemistry from the University of Oxford, and a BTech in chemical engineering from the Institute of Chemical Technology in Mumbai. He has written for Quartz and The Economist, and his work has been cited in global publications including New York Times, Washington Post, New Yorker, The Guardian, Wall Street Journal and Financial Times.

On Twitter: @AkshatRathi

On LinkedIn: AkshatRathi

On the Web: https://akshatrathi.com/

Geek rating: 4

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